Question:
Why can't OH follow it's own terms of service?
Why is it, when you start a new membership, you recieve an e-mail from OH saying what the offer - and never follow through with what they should. Descriptions follow... HERE TO HELP YOU We're here to help you with every stage of your journey toward better health through long term weight loss. Our aim is to provide the public with as much information as possible on bariatric surgery and related resources. If you have any questions at all, please let us know. **Why do you ignore complaint posts? Why do you ignore e-mails generated by folks in an attempt to stop the foul play that is happening on certain boards of your site? Why do you sit on your hands? A COMMUNITY OF FRIENDS We offer a warm community of supportive people to learn from and to share your experiences with. Need someone to talk to at any time of the day? Just stop by our chat room. Find exciting and accepting people near you who understand where you are coming from, and can help you get to where you want to go. **A warm community of friends? Then why do you allow posts that call formerly fat people "plumpmeister" and not moderate or suspend them? What is your motive OH? Don't care anymore? JOIN THE CAUSE We are dedicated to fighting isolation and obesity discrimination. At least 5 million people in the United States alone are 100 or more pounds overweight! Most of these people suffer in silent frustration from this genetically based disease. Join our efforts to educate employers, health care workers and the general public about the tragic physical and emotional damage inflicted by obesity. We are seeking volunteers to join the cause. Visit http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/information/howucanhelp.php to learn how you can help. **You want us to help others when you won't even help your members? Fighting discrimination has to start with you. And when you ignore a problem long enough it's going to get so out of hand you won't believe how ugly people can be. When are you going to stop discrimination between surgeries? It's up to you and your moderation button. GENERAL CONDUCT We are a community of people who support one another's emotional and informational needs. No member shall use our forum to attack or slander other people. No member shall use our forum to force political, sexual, religious or other views upon others or to flaunt, over mention or overstress them if they may be offensive to others. Likewise, members will not use our forum to criticize the merely casual mention of such views or opinions. Educational debate on health topics is welcome provided that such debate is non repetitive, accompanied by references and/or supporting information, carried out in a way that is not overtly an ongoing vendetta against particular parties, and does not generate a large volume of conflict-oriented activity which distracts from the mission of our community. **Slander is happening throughout your boards. You need to nip it in the bud. People are getting to the point of violence. On an online message board - how is that possible you ask. Just read some of the most vile threads YOU allowed to go on these past few weeks. You will see the horrible name calling, trash talk, and HATE that runs rampant on your site. This is more of a hate site then a support site. MODERATION This is a privately owned and operated web site. Some parts of it are non-moderated and are passive conduits of non-reviewed peer to peer communication. Other parts of it such as the Q&A boards and message board accept contributions from the public for possible inclusion on the site. All site members are invited to contribute content but no guarantees are made or offered that such content will be accepted. Moderation policy is geared toward approving any content that is non-inflammatory or overtly conflict-oriented in nature. Disapproved postings may be returned to the poster with requests for rephrasing. To maximize site benefit to the majority of participants, active & recurring conflict and controversy is deflected away from the site with the admission that such activity could be of informational benefit to the participants and perhaps to a wider audience. Site moderators will not approve postings on the topic of moderation as these almost invariably promote conflict. **This isn't even happening. Where did you drop the ball? Time to pick it up and following your OWN terms of service. VIOLATION OF CONDUCT Members are actively encouraged to report any violation of these policies to site management using the general contact form on the site. Parties found to be in violation of this policy will be warned and/or might have their membership suspended. **This is a joke. You do nothing for people who complain they are being violated in the worst ways. You don't moderate when neccessary or delete posts that get out of hand. What is happening at OH? SO my question is, how can OH improve it's site? By stopping the unneccessary hatred and filter the junk. Hire more people, tell the people you pay a salary to do their jobs, or just stating caring about OH in general. The hatred between the RNY and DS board has gotten out of hand and it is on YOUR head OH. You let it get this way. And you will pay with the consequences of whatever happens. I could see someone taking their own lives because of the viciousness you allow to happen here. Shame on you OH. Shame on you. Valued members? What a joke. Start improving today. — [Deactivated Member] (posted on December 2, 2007)
December 2, 2007
Talk about violence, insult, ridicule? You have just insulted every person
who believes in this site, and has depended on it to get thru a most
challenging life experience. If you don't like it....don't read it! It's
that simple.
— lesleigh07
December 2, 2007
I cannot quite grasp what YOUR problem is since you felt the need to
"BASH" OH. They HAVE been there for me and I thank God for them
when I was going through my surgery. Noone said YOU had to stay with OH.
Guess YOU must have gained your weight back after having surgery and didn't
follow YOUR doctors orders about eating. SHAME SHAME ON "YOU"!!!
If you had taken a walk the same time it took you to write that God awful
letter, YOU might have dropped a few pounds. YOU don't speak for us OH
members so quit acting like you are. GET A LIFE!!
— MCraig3
December 2, 2007
I agree with the other two responders. You seem very unhappy and I doubt
if anyone would be able to do enough for you. I, personally, have never
been defined by my weight, even at my highest which was about 280, but
still the support here has been wonderful from the time I first signed on
over 5 years ago. Yes, do go for a walk and cool off and come back with a
positive attitude and I'm sure you'll find the support you need.
— Kathy T.
December 2, 2007
Please do not speak for everyone. I love OH, I have not seen any of the
things your talking about. If you email them the way your talking to us,
then hell I wouldnt answer you back either. I have had nothing but great
things to say for the AWESOME people and this site. It has been such a
major god send for me. I tell everyone about it, because its so great!
— TattooGirl1982
December 2, 2007
Are the "Voices" telling you this stuff or are you ACTUALLY
seeing all this "hatred" on this site????? Sounds like
"self-hatred" and self-loathing on your part...... Everyone here
has been wonderful and encouraging (except me today!). Hugs to
Everyone!!!!!
— Toni Todd
December 2, 2007
I must be out of the loop as I've seen nothing like what you have stated,
however, you stated this went on in the chat room and the message boards.
I have not been there done that. I like OH, and usually learn something
new each day. I even learned about my current tasteless protein powder
that I would have never known about through OH and I am so very very
thankful for that! God bless!
— crystalsno
December 2, 2007
I would have said the same thing as Tattoo Girl.
FYI, Websites and blogs are relatively inexpensive to own and operate. If
this site has failed you, you can start your own site. I don't mean that
in a sarcastic way either.
Tom
— Tom Y.
December 2, 2007
I stopped reading post this after 3 of your own violations... I will pray
for you honey, and that is a sincere, loving statment with honest
intentions.
— Kathy-R
December 2, 2007
AMOS MOD NOTE: I have alerted management to your unhappiness. I care for
just this little part of the site and am very pleased with all the help
members provide here. Most of the site is cared for by volunteers like
myself who have regular lives and cant be everywhere at all times. We TRY
to do a good job. Although Q&A posters may disagree at times we are a
pretty nice group all in all, JD might try spending more time on our board
its more serious, sorry your unhappy.
— bob-haller
December 2, 2007
Wow! I thinkd it is interesting to note that no one who answered your
letter agrees with you. I am sooo sorry you feel the way you do. This
site has been a god send to me and I have met so many wonderful and caring
people. I can't imagine what has caused you to say the things you said in
the letter. Pat
— pjennjr
December 2, 2007
That's a lot of unhappiness to spend that much time writing something for.
If you're that unhappy, I know there are other sites out there. It is not
worth it to be so unhappy about something you don't have to be involved in.
I have been on the message boards a little but have never seen anything
like what you're talking about, only people helping other people out. i
have not been in chatrooms but not every chatroom can be monitored all the
time. So far, this site has been like an angel to me and has helped me in
so many ways before my surgery and since my surgery (which was 6 days ago).
I love OH and it's members and I will pray for you and that you will find
someplace that will give you the help you need and won't make you so
unhappy. May God bless you J T.
— itzmetami
December 2, 2007
I completely agree with the original poster in wanting to know when OH is
going to step up and step in when it comes to the abuse that is being
dished out and going unpunished on a few of the messageboards. I HAVE seen
it, and have been subjected to it myself. I've sent numerous posts to OH
asking for something to be done and I've simply been ignored. I'm glad the
other respondants here have apparently never run into it, but that is no
reason to put down the original poster and infer that it is she who has a
problem. I assure you that the things she is referring to have and are
happening daily and OH really needs to stand by their TOS and do what needs
to be done to put an end to it. For some post-ops, OH may be one of their
only sources of ongoing support. It's very unfortunate that people are
being driven away because a handful of OH members can't play nice and
repeatedly get away with it.
— Martha M.
December 2, 2007
You know what is interesting, I appreciate all of the feedback on this. I
love OH and it's members - and that is why it hurts seeing all the people
forced away. If you need examples, please click on the following links
http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/rny/a,messageboard/action,replies/board_id,5465/cat_id,5065/topic_id,3462072/
and
http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/DS/a,messageboard/action,replies/board_id,5357/cat_id,4957/topic_id,3463875/
and
http://www.obesityhelp.com/forums/DS/a,messageboard/action,replies/board_id,5357/cat_id,4957/topic_id,3463620/
- I'm not the monster. Just someone who cares about the faceless
stranger and the abuse that happens is unforgivable because OH doesn't stop
it.
— [Deactivated Member]
December 2, 2007
I have read and witnessed some of the "abuse" I have managed to
stay clear of it. OH has been a huge help to me. It's been awesome meeting
so many people that are going through what I have gone through and have
helped me to know what to expect. It's with the love and care of so many
people that I have been able to re-establish my faith and know that I am
doing the right thing. God bless you all! I hope you find peace and that
everyone will be able to get along. No matter what road anyone chooses in
what surgery they choose, we all have something in common; we decided to
take control of our issues. Isn't that what's most important after all?
— cmbirkey
December 2, 2007
AMOS MOD NOTE: I have e mailed several management people, so this isnt
being ignored. Unfortunately with as many members as we have all will never
get along well all the time. But we volunteers attempt to do the best we
can. Q&A tends to be a friendly place probably because post are all on
topic. Boards that discuss everything and chat rooms espically tend to have
more problems. That why I always prefered Q&A and am still here after
so many years. Happily many topics that used to be hot buttons now are no
trouble. I want to thank everyone here for being such a nice helpful group.
— bob-haller
December 2, 2007
I think the last part of your "point" about someone taking their
own life is RIDICULOUS and LUDICROUS!!!! That is the problem in America
today...NO ONE WANTS TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN ACTIONS! That is
why we have people suing for spilling hot coffee on themselves or women who
have sued because they claimed the doctor did not tell them they couldn't
take drugs (illegal drugs) while they were pregnant!!!! It is OBVIOUS
everyone at this site who has undergone WLS or is waiting for their date
does take responsbility for their OWN actions. I have seen many, many
posts of things that I consider to be extremely stupid on the poster's
part, but I would never come out and say that because maybe the person is
not as educated as the next person. Do you really think that all of the
employees of OH have all the time in the world to read over EVERY single
post and delete the "inappropriate" ones? I'm with the first
responder to your post...IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT...MOVE ON!!!! NO ONE is
MAKING you read this site or contribute to this site. Leave those of us
alone who enjoy the support we get here and go find some kind of site that
suits you.
— ALafferty
December 2, 2007
I agree with you, I just got done reading some of that stuff and I am
disgusted with those people and their comments. I needed advise and
received that instead, I would just delete my account and never log on
again but no one should have to go through some thing like that. This is a
place for support and help not to put down and insulted. Thanks for being
this to the for front, now maybe something will be done about or maybe
those people might actually realize how nasty they sounded and apoligize
but I doubt it. thanks again........
— psmeshell
December 2, 2007
When your experience on this site is pleasant and productive it seems
completely left-field to see this sort of thing and it is easy to believe
that the person posting this question is off her rocker. But this site is
so huge that it is entirely possible for some of you to have a pleasant
experience, and yet for the exact infractions she points out to go on. I
happen to know that there are members of THIS SITE who have sent private
messages to other members telling them to KILL THEMSELVES and denigrating
them and using all of the obesity-hatred buttons that we've all been
subject to for years. If this can be tolerated on an ObesityHELP web site,
then there is NO help available. If obesity-hatred and
surgery-specific-hatred and other types of hate-mongering are allowed, then
the entire purpose of the site, for those affected, is nullified. I, too,
urge Obesity Help to do something about this continuing and non-stop
harrasment from a small handful of hate-mongers... they are NOT doing
anything to improve the site, and in fact are dis-improving the site daily
by their tactics of hatred, terror, and bullying. I truly hope that Obesity
Help will take this complaint seroiusly and do something about it. If
nothing is done this site will simply be a place where the people who were
bullies and obese are now using their power and the knowledge of the
vulnerabilities of other obese folks to reign supreme in a paradise for
bullies and a hell-hole for those seeking true support. I am glad that the
cancerous hatred these few individuals spread has not spread throughout the
site, but if this behavior is allowed to continue it will spread. There
will alway be disagreements and flame wars online, but the level that these
perpetrators have risen to is beyond ability to comprehend. This place
should NOT be a playground for bullies.
— Lady Lithia
December 2, 2007
Ok, Well I posted here on this subject early today and I saved it because I
wanted to come back and see if you posted anything with more info. I think
If you would have posted those links along with your 1st post. More people
would have seen what you was talking about rather then giving us nothing
but insults. I am very appalled by what I read and it seems to be a certain
few doing it. I do think that after reading this the OH does need to step
up and send a warning to those who have out and out been VERY nasty and do
it fast the info is right there for them so they don't need to do much
homework to find out who the bad apples are. I know that we have our right
to free speech (perks of the USA) but there is free speech and then there
is being down right nasty. I think the few people in those post on DS board
have over stepped the line of their free speech. I am very upset after
reading that. But Bob stated that he has forward the problem. I am hoping
that someone will do something about it. This site is to help people and be
there for each other. If the one lady wanted to be cracked on she could
have just deal with the normal people we run into every single day of our
lives. But just like in your real life your always gonna have some butthead
to cause trouble and we have them here also. I still stick to what I have
stated before, This site is very good, I tell people about it all the time.
The people here have been a god send and very nice. But not everyone here
on this site is a bad apple so we shouldn't be grouped together. But I now
see that we do have some and I hope that they are called on it. Very soon!
— TattooGirl1982
December 2, 2007
Oh believe me, the nastiness and hatered that go on within the posts are
true and hard to believe. I don't have a support group near where I live,
so OH is my only support network. It's the people on this website that
have given me the best information - not the advertisements. To be so ugly
to the person that posed this question and to tell them to go somewhere
else if they don't like it....that's nasty too!! To think that the post
was also trying to blame a suicidal attempt to the responsibility of
OH..you misread. I've had weight problems..hence the surgery and coming to
OH but I am also a bipolar and have good days and some really bad days.
With the hatered on here sometimes, I've been called mentally handicapped
because I disclosed my bipolarism in order to help someone else. If you
didn't think a cruel comment like that couldn't drive someone to take their
own life?? Think again. It cut to the bone...just as I did on that day
and slit my wrists. I went and got help and I am seeing my therapist
regularing but when you have your only focus of support..turn around and
put you down as alot of the lurking/visiting renegades do...it wears you
down. I've pushed my report button, I've begged for threads to be locked.
Just find that an hour down the road, the thread has been unlocked and the
nasty people are posting again. Why would you do that...unlock a thread??
Anyway, think of me as you would like, I'm just being honest and again have
set myself up to be called names and ridiculed because I care to share.
prayeriedawn
— [Deactivated Member]
December 2, 2007
I am mostly a lurker and this is probably a bad time to come out of that
mode but the poster and responses to the posting are so strong that it
occurs to me that peoples feelings have been hurt badly. That's always a
bad thing. I can't imagine the pain of posting something here (a place
that should be a safe haven for those who might have no other support) and
being insulted on any level. The world can be very cruel to those of us
who are or have been obese and it shouldn't be that way here. We should
understand and support each other.
I haven't noticed much bad behavior here but then again I don't read it
regularly. We do need to keep in mind that many different people share
this space and there are bound to be disagreements because what we discuss
and feel about it comes from such a sensitive place in all of us. Our
weight is such a complex issue for most of us. Changing lifestyles with or
without surgery is so difficult. Respecting others choices regarding the
different surgery we all chose or are considering is such a personal choice
and there are so many factors to consider that it brings up strong emotions
in us.
I don't think I agree with the poster of this message in general but I
certainly support their right to post it and be heard on this forum. I do
think it's fine to disagree with any posting but we should reject the idea
and not the person.
— Stacey D.
December 2, 2007
If you hate it here so much, they why are you here? Go somewhere else. If
you have a personal issue with something that happened on this site,
contact the site. Dont insult all of us by posting your childish tirade.
Grow up.
— [Deactivated Member]
December 3, 2007
This is a wonderful and supportive site. It has been so helpful to so many
of us. You sound very nasty in your email.....just like what you are
accusing people of on this site. Take a chill pill and don't log back onto
this site if you don't like what people have to say here. No one is forcing
you to visit this site. We can and will do without mean spirited people
such as yourself!!! Shame, shame on YOU!!!!!!!
— Kathy R.
December 3, 2007
You have put a huge amount of energy into this hateful post. What you are
asking OH to do is to provide MORE moderation, something that the majority
of posters here DON'T want! If you look, I'm sure you can find a support
site, where only flowers, kisses and rainbows are allowed. OH is a
fantastic site and there IS room here for all opinions. If you find
something in particular offensive, there is a "Report" button on
every single post. Use it. Otherwise, you should find another place to
get your support, because obviously you are not happy here. Many of us
are.
— [Deactivated Member]
December 3, 2007
Welcome to the real world where not everyone gets along with everyone else.
While we are here for the same reason we cannot be expected to all feel
the same about our individule journeys and WLS types. Have YOU never had a
LIVE conversation with someone and there feelings been hurt without your
knowledge only for you to find out later. Being in front of someone is
easier to deal with as it is real time rather then a post that the original
poster may not check for a while and by then the damage has been blown out
of the sky. By then someone lelse has responded in such a way that again
more feelings are hurt and so on and so on. Before anyone acuses anyone of
slander or damaging posts respond in a questioning manner (politely) to get
the facts straight first before going on the attack or even the defensive
as there may be no need at all.
Hopefully you have read my entire post and will at least think on what I
have said rather then dismiss it out of hand.
— bettyboop2be
December 3, 2007
Wow seems like some answers to this post are calm and respectful and some
are downright mean. 2 wrongs don't make a right people. Wow. Some of you on
here are nasty to others who don't think inside the same box you do.
I happen to love OH and it's been great to me. I hadn't experienced the
negativity until reading this post today. Why reply if only to be mean?
Just leave it unsaid. JD I am sorry for your poor experience. I haven't had
the same and I hope you get to still experience what is good about OH.
Take care all and behave.
— Tomi D.
December 3, 2007
Why are all the responders links to profiles "hot" but the
original poser of the question is not? Has he been banned for asking the
question?
— Island Girl
December 3, 2007
If you find someone spewing hate, just block them. Simple. OH isn't
responsible for the fights between the RNY boards and the DS boards - but
it does sound like you are serving as a catalyst for more problems. Don't!
Just post what you can to help and ignore the junk.
— Serendipity_888
December 3, 2007
AMOS MOD NOTE: The original poster has a private profile that doesnt accept
e mail. No one was banned although I have the ability to zap all this I try
to avoid doing that. Feel its better to let people express their opinions.
— bob-haller
December 3, 2007
I agree with JD 100%. Where are the moderators? Why are hate fill posts
allowed to stand with the entire thread filled with insults and ridicule?
— LosingSally
December 3, 2007
You must be joking, JD! For you Shakespeare fans out there, "The lady
doth protest too much, methinks." For less highbrow folks like me,
there's a childhood saying about farts that rings true here too,
"whoever smelled it, dealt it."
The three long threads you linked to, if anyone actually read all of them,
do NOT support what you are claiming, but support the notion that you are
an angry rabble-rouser who is not satisfied with a major choice you made in
your life. The third one is the kicker, though, where an RNYer (with the
fitting name of "Donkey," which means "Ass") pretended
to be a DSer and claimed to have 18 poops a day! It is proven, later in
this lying, inflammatory thread, if anyone made it that far, that it was a
bitter RNYer just trying to scare newbies away and yet you post it here
like it's fact. Many of us suspect that YOU are the one who did this harm,
JD, by the way. Did you expect DSers to think this was cute or funny? One
of the other ones you're complaining about was a good-natured offer by a
DSer to be a punching bag for RNYers if they would only donate money to
help the family of a sick DSer. It didn't take long for PlumpKitty to turn
it into a brawl. (BTW, thank to the RNYers who donated--that was very cool
and much-appreciated). And the third one you posted was a thread about
surgery choice. The original poster genuinely thanked the DSers for posting
their reasons they chose their surgery because she wanted to know.
I have learned so much about all of the surgery choices through visiting
all of the boards. I enjoy the exchange of ideas. I love people who can
back up with they say with honest-to-goodness research fro REAL medical
journals, not blurbs from "Weightloss for Dummies,"
"Entertainment Tonight" or their surgeon's marketing brochure. If
I read something I don't like, I can post about it or move on. I suggest
you move on, if you are offended. Posting is not your strong suit.
So, to wrap it up, if you smell it JD, perhaps you dealt it.
Oooh. One more thing, JD. What are all of your "handles" on OH?
(The real and false ones.) I'd like to go through your "latest
posts" and see how kind and supportive you have been to every one in
your path. I am "Nicolle"--feel free to check my posts and find
even one that is mean.
Nicolle
— Nicolle
December 3, 2007
People have their own personalities and beliefs. It is like religion and
politics. We are human and don't always agree. So then block them if they
upset you. But I think that the most people here are here to support one
another. I have had a few vehement discussions on subjects where I felt
strongly one way and the other poster felt the opposite. That's life.
This board has literally saved my life several times, and I treasure
everyone here, even those I regularloy disagree with. Your opinion is one
of many thousands. Keep that in mind.
— w8'n no more
December 3, 2007
— ginabobina_9090
December 3, 2007
Oh, I forgot one thing. Per JD's erudite post above, I am the creator of
the "Plumpmeister" name that was used ONCE on a thread. I was
just riffing off (like the copy guy on SNL) the poster's name on a
particular thread, "Plumpkitty." Plumpkitty has never told me
that offended her, so if it did, I am very sorry. Since she named HERSELF
something with the word "plump" in it, I could not have forseen
she would be offended. I have been called "Nicky" and other
derivatives of my online name here, so I did not think that was taboo.
Nicolle
— Nicolle
December 3, 2007
OH has created a feature to help you deal.....the block button. You know
sometimes the best way to not be offended is not to read something...if you
still feel the need to read things that bother you...then perhaps you need
to take a step away from this type of support group setting. Not everyone
has the mental fortitude to on an internet board.
— Beam me up Scottie
December 3, 2007
Obviously, some people should not have made it past they psychological
testing. As an adult, you will encounter people who:
1. Don't agree with everything you say
2. Don't feel the need to sugarcoat their words to make them more palatable
to other adults.
3. Exercise their rights of free speach.
4. Don't like you, or your opinions and don't hesitate to make that clear
to you.
5. Understand that websites like this aren't created to cater to the
opinions and fragile feelings of any one individual, but rather to ALL who
participate and have opinions.
As some others have said, if you can't handle the realities of this site,
then perhaps you should find one better suited to your fragile feelings. It
is posts like yours here which do nothing but fan the flames. Most everyone
on here has figured ways to either contribute to discussions and debates,
or to ignore threads that are too upsetting for them to handle.
Perhaps you should seek some sort of professional help (and I mean that
with no malice) because you have some serious issues of paranoia and
persecution.
This site is not all about you, nor are the comments and responses personal
attacks on you. There is a vast community on here and your perceived
slights and hurt feelings are not the responsibility of everyone else.
It doesn't matter what sort of surgery you've had or are planning, the
bottom line is, you have far bigger issues than WLS if you felt compelled
to right something like this.
— Username1
December 3, 2007
That of course should read "the" not "they psychological
testing"
— Username1
December 3, 2007
Your paragraph is waaay tooo long! I am so lost!
— Vicki PNW
December 4, 2007
Wow! I guess ignorance is bliss. I agree totally with you, J D. Although I
have found lots of helpful posts here, over the past few months, I have
seen more and more hateful posts. The sad part is most of it is by the same
people over and over again. It's one thing if there is understaffing, but
how many people have to report someone before anything?
<p>
There is no such thing as free speech on forums. The forum owner can have
as much control as they want. If they know what's good for their message
board, they will not let poisonous people go unchallenged.
<p>
Hatred is viral. If it is not caught in time, others think they have a
license to be as mean as they want. Hatred has spread in the real world
during wartime, so it can certainly spread on a message board.
— cyberdonna
December 5, 2007
Get a life JD. If you don't like OH, then just *BOW OUT*! Seems pretty
simple to me.
— [Deactivated Member]
December 5, 2007
wow, i think there are more answers to this than any i have read. i have
only been here for four months, but i read this all the time and love this
site. i go where i like to go. i have read the threads that have been
posted here and i see people who have different oppinions and are
exchanging ADULT ideas with each other. of course peoples ideas are
different. that is what makes life INTERESTING.
— madone2
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