Question:
Not WLS related - this is a work related issue and LONG, so be prepared...
Ok here's a crazy situation. My husband's boss is a serious hot head that allows his mouth to spew the most irresponsible things from time to time with no regard of who is within earshot or who he may offend. Yesterday there was an incident at his work and he's unsure if there's anything he can do about it. When my husband was hired he accepted the package offered after some hard negotiation attempts, and the package was a bit lower then he had anticipated, but because of the job market he figured he should be grateful to have had the offer he was able to get to and he accepted. Shortly after accepting the job he found documentation (and has a copy of it) stating that the planned salary for the position that my husband accepted was $15k more then he was offered and was able to negotiate. He was disappointed and couldn't figure out why or how it happened, he's always been successful with negotiating salaries in the past. Over the past 2 years of his employment he's heard his boss (the president of the company, now vice president after a recent acquisiton) make comments about people in the office that are extremely inappropriate, an example is threatening to fire a pregnant woman because she needed maternity leave (not to her directly, but to some of the other managers at the office), things like this. Yesterday Steve heard him say "I should just fire his fat behind (he used a more colorful version of the word) and be done with it." Now as you know my husband is planning on getting WLS with me, he's informed his work partner of this, and his partner is very very supportive of it, his partner's brother had it done a few years ago and it was very successful, so he thinks it's a fantastic thing for my husband to pursue. Anyway, my husband's never been touchy or sensitive about his weight, but this comment I think compounded in his mind with some of the other comments that he's made before, and even though the comment wasn't directed at him, he's begun to feel that perhaps he's being compensated lower then others in his position (he's a manager as well) because of his weight issue. Is there anything that can be or should be done about this? — Kimberly J. (posted on June 11, 2003)
June 11, 2003
As I see it (and I wish my boss, Little Hitler, would remember this) is
everyone has a boss - no matter who they are. I'd go to whoever the new
president is and let him know what's going on. It's just a matter of time
before big mouth says or does something that will impact the future of the
company, not just himself. If your husband goes about this in a
non-defensive way and puts emphasis on protecting the company, I can assure
you that big mouth's reign with be short lived. Just make sure he has lots
of proof. Don't depend upon others to be witness for him - he has to do
this himself. Good luck.
— Vicki H.
June 11, 2003
I agree with the previous answer . . . and your husband needs to start
keeping a log of what happened or was said to who and when. Sounds like a
good case of harrasement to me.
— lorien
June 11, 2003
I am only speaking for myself - but I would contact an attorney that has
experience in discrimination work and "just get another opinion."
— Susan B.
June 11, 2003
It's a tough situation and makes all of us recall many bitter experiences
when we have been the victims of weight-ism and other forms of
discrimination. Maybe an experienced labor lawyer would have a different
theory, but I think that it's tough to argue that someone taking a salary
of less than 15,000 than the company was willing to pay them is a sign of
discrimination-- although I do think that it speaks volumes of how this
boss views employees.
When I was in a similar situation, nasty boss who reneged on multiple
promises, made weight comments all the time (labeled me "weak"
b/c I would take a lunch break) and would physically poke me in the chest
to make his points, I started my own law office and left him in the dust;
fortunately, two of his partners also left along with three associates as
they had all had their fill of him. So, I guess the short answer is that I
think that this boss (as mine had been) is a just a surly misogynist and
not a bigot against whom there can be a legal remedy.
— SteveColarossi
June 11, 2003
I'm probably way off base here, but here's my opinion. The way the job
market is right now, I would have your husband be VERY careful. How did he
get this a copy of the salary document? Is it something that he dug around
for? Or did his manager give it to him? If he is holding personal and
confidential information that he shouldn't have, he could lose his job. I
personally think people sue needlessly...of course there are times when
it's neccessary. Think long and hard before making an issue. I know, I
know, your husband deserves more money and NO ONE deserves to be talked
about in that way. I'm sorry his feelings were hurt. But here's a good
thing....once he loses weight, he'll be more marketable. It's too bad that
people view overweight people in a negative way, but that's they way it is.
Good luck! ~J
— Jillian C.
June 11, 2003
Hi Kimberly- I don't really have an answer to your question. The only
thing I can say is people like your husband's boss (in my opinion) just
about always get fired. Sooner or later, hopefully sooner, he's going to
make a comment about the wrong person's fat @$$ and that will be the end of
him. Whatever your DH decides, I hope it all turns out for the best:o)
Mea
— Mea A.
June 11, 2003
You asked for opinions, so here is my opinion. About the difference in
money, it would not be the first time someone got paid less than they are
making, my husband recently got a pay raise and was happy about it, until
he found out that another person with less education got just a bit higher
pay raise. Yes, his boss is stupid and rude, like alot of sociaty when it
comes to MO people. He was out of place saying what he did, my question
would be, does this companies insurance pay for WLS, you said that your
husband was having the surgery. If it pays for the surgery, do not make
any waves untill after the WLS, then you are in a different position. If
your husband quits now or were to get fired now, he would have a hard time
finding a new job to flip the bill for WLS right out of the gate. Like
they say in the military "suck it up" I do not mean to be like I
do not care, because I do, but you asked my opinion.
— cindy
June 11, 2003
Salary information is usually public record like most personnel records,
you just have to jump through hoops to get it. Anyway, I was DENIED a job,
and the person who wanted to hire me was told he had to re-post the
position by his boss, who also knew me. I was completely qualified and
scored high on the computer test. At the time I had another job that I
enjoyed and was finishing college so I didn't fight it. Then I had a
temporary position and the same overall boss made my supervisor fire me.
When I called personnel to fight, I was told since it was temporary I could
be let go for any reason at any time. So then I brought up the other job I
was denied and she said she did not know that had happened but it was too
late since the position was filled. I spoke to a lawyer but 6 months had
past so I could not do anything about it. When I asked my supervisor what
problem his boss had with me...he told me that some people have a negative
view that overweight people are lazy. This was the first time the thought
that people judged me negatively because of my weight entered my mind. So
yes, your husband needs to keep a record of what's happening and talk to
someone in human resources if possible.
— Sarahlicious
June 11, 2003
Thanks for all the comments on this. I have directed him here to read all
of the comments and opinions that everyone's shared. I'm sure he'll decide
something in time, but as I said to him already, perhaps for now (at least
until after he has the surgery and he takes advantage of the short term
disability, vacation, and protection of FMLA, etc available to him for the
recovery period) it's best to just grin and bear it... once he's recovered
from the surgery he was considering doing independent contracting anyway.
=) Thanks again!! ~ Kim ~
— Kimberly J.
June 12, 2003
Have your husband call your local EEOC office, you can find them in the
phone book or look them up online. What your husband's boss is doing is
illegal and he is creating a hostile work environment.
— Dawn P.
June 12, 2003
I've worked in human resources for 25 years, as a director and VP, so a few
comments from my professional perspective: there are countless reasons to
explain why the company reduced the salary for the job. One of them could
be the economy (it has an impact on companies as well as on us individual
folks), another is that the job was changed from its original inception,
and carried less responsibility/authority by the time it came to offer the
job to someone, perhaps they were originally looking for a different set of
qualifications (number of years of direct experience, formal level of
education, etc.)etc., etc. Without having seen the document your husband
came across, I don't know the company's reasons, but be aware that there
could be valid reasons for the salary difference other than obesity
discrimination.
Even if the salary change and his boss's treatment of your husband is
motivated by your husband's weight, there is no law preventing that. One
would hope that the company wouldn't allow such boorish behavior. It's
cruel, it's mean, it's even harassing, but it is not illegal. Your husband
could appeal to his boss's higher-ups on a humanity basis, but there is no
legal basis for a complaint to the EEOC or other government agency. Title
VII (the employment discrimination law) specifically lists the criteria
upon which it is illegal to make employment-based decisions. It includes
such things as race, gender, national origin, religion, and others. But it
does not specifically mention size or weight. So, as despicable as the
boss's behavior is, your husband's choices are to take it, leave his job,
or seek some redress from human resources or his boss's bosses. I
sincerely hope that the company he works for has a better social conscience
than the boss demonstrates, and I am truly sorry for what your husband is
going through. It's bad business on every level.
— Vespa R.
June 12, 2003
I don't mean to step on anyone's toes here, but Vespa is not completely
accurate in stating there is no legal basis for a claim on behalf of your
husband. There may be no DIRECT law addressing obesity. However, a MAJOR
precedent setting case was just won in which a judge ruled that morbid
obesity falls under handicap laws. Therefore, if your husband's company
has a provision about handicaps, then your husband could very well have a
case.
— Amanda S.
June 12, 2003
Thanks, Amanda, for the new info. I'm going to look up the case. I'm
happy to know that someone has taken our side, and recognizes that
discriminating against heavy people is just as damaging as discriminating
against others who have an external difference from the norm.
— Vespa R.
June 12, 2003
I'm not sure what judgement is being refered to here, but obesity is not
covered under ADA, although some co-morbidities can qualify an individual.
And although rules vary from company to company, at mine (a Fortune 10
company) salary information is restricted and confidential...certainly not
public knowledge...in fact, it is against company policy to discuss salary
information with co-workers. It would be virtually impossible to prove
that he was hired at less $$ because he was obese. First of all, any good
negotiator is going to try to strike a benefitial deal...its that person's
job and the hiring manager isn't liable for being good at it. But, let's
say that there was actual "discriminating" going on. How could
you possibly prove it unless someone handed your husband a sheet of paper
signed by everyone involved stating that his obesity was the reason they
decided to compensate him less?
As far as your husband's boss...sure, he's a jerk. But this kind of talk
is very common behind closed doors (although it sounds like this boss isn't
even attempting to close his door).
Sure...the squeeky wheel gets the grease sometimes...other times it gets
replaced by another wheel that isn't so darn noisy. I'd just take
advantage of the insurance and leave benefits...and then move on to a place
that will appreciate his talents and where he feels more welcome once the
surgery bills have been paid...
Best wishes to you both!
— Amy W.
June 12, 2003
HI
I WAS LAID OFF AND A CO WORKER OF MINE ALSO WE WERE BOTH OVER 50 AND BOTH
VERY OVER WEIGHT WE LOST A BIG ACCT I DID THE WORK FOR THE ACCT WE LOST BUT
MY FRIEND DID NOT I STILL THINK THEY GOT RID OF BOTH OF US BECAUSE OF AGE
AND WEIGHT BUT WE COULD NOT PROVE IT, WE GOT A LAWYER AND HE WROTE A LETTER
TO THE COMPANY AND THEY CAME BACK WITH LOOSING THE ACCT SO THERE YOU GO I
WISH YOUR HUSBAND ALL THE LUCK IT SOMETHING HARD TO PROVE.
— ROSEMARY A.
June 13, 2003
I was in the same type of enviornment that your husband was prior to my
surgery. I was a supervisor in the HR department of a large firm in
Chicago. People say they don't descriminate because of size, but they do
and they are steroetyped! I had a partner of this firm actually tell me
his requirements for a new secretary and the main one was that she was not
fat! I know that my weight held me back from getting a raise and a
promotion. I heard all the "fat" comments. I tried not to let
them bother me, but I know my "fat" held me back from getting a
promotion. I have since left that firm and in a new body and a new
company. I got an $8,000 increase and I love my job. I've even showed
my "before" picture to them. Tell your husband to hang in there.
— dolphins94
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